Joyce Carol Oates is not afraid to confront disturbing historical realities in her novels.
The prolific author joined Talk of Iowa host Charity Nebbe as part of the Des Moines Public Library’s AVID series to discuss her latest book, Butcher.
Exploring the nuanced history of medicine
The novel was inspired by the true history of medical malpractice committed against women.
“The character in this novel is a composite character, and he’s based on three really outstanding and celebrated doctors from the 19th century,” Oates said. “I mean, I didn’t want to just write about people who were failures.”
The character, Silas Weir, performs experimental procedures on the women in his care at a psychiatric hospital. Oates said the history of medicine is an interesting irony because so many discoveries have been made through unethical means.
“They didn’t think they were murderers or doing anything bad. They thought they were doing a lot of good. And the strange thing is, they all did some good. That’s why the whole history of medicine is so murky, because medicine is experimental.”
Through Silas, Oates portrays how 19th century women were exploited by doctors who had no idea what they were doing, while midwives actually cared for the patients.
They didn’t think that they were murderers or that they were doing anything bad, they thought that they were doing a lot of good deeds, and the strange thing is, they all did some good deeds.
Joyce Carol Oates
Speaking to the Des Moines audience, Oates said it was easy and fascinating to write from Silas’s point of view because he is so ignorant. She described a scene in the novel in which Silas tries to repair his cleft palate.
“He has surgical tools that he bought second-hand and he’s excited about this. The women are tied up and, luckily, he has two women, Greta and Bridget, who are there to help him. They always know more than he does, so they’re helpful and give him little hints on what to do,” Oates said. “And then he has this chilling realization: ‘I have no idea what I’m doing.'”
Talking about the novel, Oates managed to find humor in the doctor’s tragic incompetence.
“He’s really hurt that the nursing assistants didn’t praise him. No one ever tells him how good he was at suturing,” she said. “I thought that was typical, that he totally hurt this woman and now she’s in a much worse state. The tear is worse because he cut it wrong and didn’t sew it up properly. But he’s just hurt that he didn’t praise him because he thought he was good at suturing. I just thought that’s just the way he is. Well, a lot of men have to take care of their pride, you know?”
The limits of fear
Although Oates offers some chilling passages about the human psyche, she promises her audience that no particular creature will come to harm in her story.
“As a side note, if you read my novels, no cats or dogs get hurt,” Oates said, drawing laughter from the audience. “So even if I…”
“The baby died,” Nebbe pointed out.
“Well, that’s true, but it wasn’t a kitten.”
I believe in happy endings
Oates is interested in dark moments in history, but he is also careful to embrace the resilience of his characters.
I’m very optimistic about the smaller human relationships, the emotional connections. I believe in romance.
Joyce Carol Oates
“My female characters, women and girls, sometimes suffer at the hands of men, but I still focus on how they overcome it and how they persevere,” Oates said. “Bridget goes through a lot of physical problems that she has no control over, and she feels ashamed about it, but then she becomes more independent.”
Though it’s an unsettling read, Oates ultimately provides Butcher readers with a happy ending.
“I think that in the political, larger context, life is very tragic. There will always be war, violence and hurt. But when it comes to the smaller relationships between people, things like emotional connections, I’m very optimistic. I believe in romance.”
Book bans are a divisive issue
When asked about recent political efforts to restrict reading materials, Oates said those who are trying to ban reading materials don’t actually care about books.
“You sometimes have a politician who has no interest in this issue, no interest at all, but he pretends to be interested and he tries to anger people and he tries to divide people,” Oates said.
An Iowa law requiring schools to remove sexually explicit books from libraries is currently being challenged in federal court.
“The book ban is the tip of the iceberg, there’s much more underneath,” Oates said. “We live in a culture with a lot of very wealthy people who are like invisible oligarchy, and a lot of very poor people, but not many middle-class people. So people’s anger shouldn’t be directed at books, but books are a finite thing, and they can stir up emotions.”
To hear more from Oates, listen to the Talk of Iowa podcast. Talk of Iowa is hosted by Charity Nebbe. This episode was produced by Caitlin Trautman.
The Des Moines Public Library is an IPR sponsor.
